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Guest and Personality
Guest: Masashi Kimura from room6
Born in 1972, 50 years old. After graduating from a computer vocational school, he aimed for the game industry but couldn't get hired, becoming a business engineer instead. Inspired by the release of the iPhone in 2007, he became independent and started his own business in 2010, wanting to develop for the iPhone. He realized that game development could also be done on the iPhone and began developing mobile games around 2013.
From around 2015, he exhibited at numerous indie game events both domestically and internationally, and started developing console games for the Nintendo Switch around 2017. Through connections made with developers at events, he began working as an indie game publisher in 2019. In 2020, he started managing the indie game label "Yokaze," which collects games that immerse players in different worlds.
Personality: Yuki Sakoda
After working at a telecommunications company and a general advertising agency, he founded an anime planning and production company, producing videos for music videos and films. He moved to Kyoto in 2021 and began working to promote the entertainment industry in Kyoto. Recently, he has also been involved in the manga and audio entertainment fields, currently planning and producing audio dramas and webtoons. Additionally, he serves as a producer and advisor for several entertainment companies.
Overall Table of Contents
#01
・It was a student life aiming for the game industry, but...
・Days as a business engineer
・The emergence of the iPhone and rekindled passion for games
・Daisuke Shiiba, who creates music for world for two
・The importance of music in indie games
・Music, scenario, graphics, and game systems are essential
#02
・After various life events, moving towards independence
・Motivation for game development accelerated by participation in indie game events
・In a charming office in Demachiyanagi, Kyoto
・About games and monetization
・Nourishment received from anime during tough times
・The final push to make games interesting
・The importance of playtesters and the difficulty of judgment
#03
・While the media format of video is linear, games are...
・Games with interactive elements are the pinnacle of complexity
・What room6 and the Yokaze label want to provide, based on that understanding
・Meeting Hako Seikatsu at a pixel art event
・Publisher business started in 2019
・Creating game works with the care of one's own child
・The development of Phantom AP progressed wonderfully with co-creation among creators
・The latest work is released when it is completed
#03 Begins
Games with Interactive Elements are the Pinnacle of Complexity
Sakoda
I thought it might be easier to understand if we compare it to anime. In the case of anime, it is fundamentally a passive medium throughout, where scenarios and visual music are created, and viewers watch it along the provided timeline. Since it progresses in a linear direction, viewers can watch it with a passive and relaxed attitude. On the other hand, games have interactivity, with both passive and active moments. Additionally, experiences that players can enjoy through gameplay must be designed, so perceptions vary from person to person and also depend on the game system. Therefore, it requires imagination and is very challenging.
Kimura
That's right. I think there is a certain level of complexity there.
Sakoda
Exactly. If there were only four types of humans, and if testing them would reveal everything, it would be simple. But there are various people with different perceptions, and I hypothesize that the stable brand worldview created by room6 and the "Yokaze" label can narrow down quite a bit what the players here are looking for and who we want to deliver to. Titles like "Unreal Life," "Phantom AP," "ghostpia," and "World for Two" are examples. Kimura-san, do you have a clear idea of who you want to deliver to? If so, how can you articulate that?
What room6 and the Yokaze Label Want to Provide
Kimura
Yes, no, no. What I'm currently working on is the indie game label "Yokaze," which aims to gather and release games that allow players to immerse themselves in a world. It's quite a vague concept, but what's important, as you mentioned earlier, is to narrow it down and deliver it to those who love it. The title I introduced earlier is "Unreal Life," which I started with the creator hako seikatsu in 2019. I met hako seikatsu at an art event and invited him to collaborate.
Sakoda
Ah, so it's already become an art event.
Kimura
Well, yes, there are times when you meet and become friends there. At that time, there was a movement, so to speak, in subculture, where quiet, story-driven, stylish pixel art games were emerging. Just around the time we started making "Unreal Life," there was a period when stylish games were being accepted in the indie game scene, so we decided to go in that direction. We aimed to consolidate it into a brand in the form of a label.
I started the indie game publisher business in 2019. It's not just about developing games; it's also about selling games from other developers through room6. So, while it was good to start, there was a time when we didn't have anything that could be called a brand or a clear idea of what we wanted to sell, so I was personally struggling. I thought that just finding games and releasing anything wouldn't be enough to survive, but meeting hako seikatsu was a timely encounter, and it felt like the puzzle pieces fit perfectly. He also wanted to have a selection of games rather than just placing various games in the same space if we were going to sell the same game, so our thoughts aligned perfectly, and that's how the indie game label came to be.
Sakoda
I see. So, did your encounter with hako seikatsu clarify the target audience that "Yokaze" wants to reach?
Kimura
Yes, I kind of realized, "Oh, there are quite a few fans who like these kinds of games." And not just "Unreal Life," but around that time, there was also the game "From_." by Dai Kyuu Wakusei and the game "Hate no Makina" by ozumikan, and we received offers to work together on these, so since all three works were pixel art, the four of us decided to launch it together. It felt like we came together quite well.
Sakoda
I see, so the works created by those members colored the art and worldview of "Yokaze" and helped determine its direction.
Kimura
Well, for me, it really felt like there were people behind those titles, and I just gathered them, creating a space for it to happen.
Sakoda
I understand. In today's world overflowing with content, there are often discussions about "Where is the competition in anime?" "Where is the competition in indie games?" "Where is the competition in manga?" The competition between works isn't just within the industry but is cross-sectional. It feels like a competition for time. In such a context, I think having a select shop is important to meet consumer needs and not waste time, especially now that content is abundant.
When I personally wanted to start with indie games, the existence of the "Yokaze" label made me feel that if I played the games from "Yokaze," I wouldn't fail, which encouraged me to go for it. By the way, what kind of image do you have of the customers that "Yokaze" wants to reach?
Kimura
Well, I think... there are probably a lot of younger people. I would guess that most of them are in their 20s. However, if I say that, I might get scolded by people in their 30s, but I do think there are many with a youthful sensibility. I don't know. But when I look at the fans, there are many stylish ones. Pixel art is often referred to as retro style, but I believe it also incorporates new expressions, so I think there are many who are sensitive and interested in new forms of expression.
Sakoda
Conversely, there are young people who feel a sense of novelty in that retro style. In music, for example, city pop and Showa retro have been making a comeback, and I feel like there's a repetition of those eras.
In the second half, I would like to ask about the publisher business that was mentioned earlier and further about "Yokaze," but first, I would like to play a song here.
Kimura
Yes. Well, the song is "Hana no Tou" by Sayuri. Please enjoy.
Creating Game Works with the Care of One's Own Child
Sakoda
What kind of episode does this song have?
Kimura
Well, this is the ending song of the anime "Lycoris Recoil," which aired last year. I personally think it's outstanding among the anime songs I've heard recently. The anime itself was interesting, and I watched it quite a bit.
Sakoda
Up to this point, we've been discussing your career, Kimura-san, and delving into the secrets of the world created by room6 and the "Yokaze" label. Harada-san, do you have any questions at this point?
Harada
Well, yes. I'm sorry. Thank you for all the discussions. I find some parts quite relatable as someone involved in anime, while also considering the balance in games. When it comes to which opinions to take, I think this is something that relates to all aspects of creation. The more you think about it, the more the intentions or axes might waver, and it can be important to figure out how not to let that happen. Alternatively, it might sometimes be crucial to jump in a different direction. So, I wonder how those judgments are made in games within this infinite, complex system. I think, well, that's understandable, and I was listening, thinking that Kimura-san is somewhat involved as a director at that time.
Then, when it comes to the label, the producer-like movements increase significantly, so I would like to ask how you differentiate between Kimura as a director and Kimura as a producer.
Kimura
Ah, I see. Well, I feel like I'm completely in the producer role now. I tend to leave direction to the creators more often. However, when it comes to the final decisions, I do step in, but mostly, as a producer, I trust the instincts of the creators.
Harada
So, moving forward, it seems that the label will be gathering titles that have a certain worldview or direction, like a discerning eye or a sense of distinction. This aspect will largely fall on Mr. Kimura's shoulders.
Kimura
That's right. Well, it's not just me making the decisions, but fundamentally, in the end, I do decide together with Hako Seikatsu-kun, and we consider his discerning eye, my discerning eye, and of course, the opinions of other staff as well. There is quite a bit of a consensus-based approach, but it's important that the brand's direction doesn't waver too much, so we try to maintain the overall framework. It's like, we want to make sure we don't stray too far from this.
Harada
Yeah, what I'm curious about in situations like this is whether the perspective is from the work itself or from the creator's viewpoint. Even among the same game creators, do the things they create differ at times?
Kimura
That's true. Currently, we aren't working with the same creators on multiple projects, but I do want to continue working with those creators. The atmosphere and worldview they possess don't change suddenly, so I think we will generally be working with the same creators. Yes.
Sakoda
What I think when I hear this is that if the creators are driving the label's worldview, the people we want to reach are likely to be similar to those creators. Even if we say we want to reach certain creators, not all of them are making games; there are those who aspire to create other things, but it feels like we are overwhelmingly reaching those who are involved in creation. This is because the parts where creators resonate with each other are what allow us to move forward in a creator-driven manner.
Kimura
Exactly. Right now, it's very important to know who is making the indie games, and people are really paying attention to that, so we are quite conscious of it.
Sakoda
Uh-huh. Also, for the creators, I think there are various companies and teams they work with, but they can tell whether their work is being valued. So, I believe that being able to see whether the final product was made with care is important for the future of the label and the company.
The development of Phantom AP was wonderfully collaborative among creators
Sakoda
When I played the work "Phantom AP," I felt it was a piece created by incredibly talented creators, and I could sense the respect for the work created by the creators. As Mr. Kimura mentioned, the desire to cherish the work like one's own child is something important for the creators who are building the label. This work is free to play, but I was amazed by its quality.
Kimura
Yes, this game has changed quite a bit since its inception. Originally, we were planning to create a game based on the worldview of the artist Harumaki Gohan, but we didn't want to just create it because we were asked to; we wanted it to be a game created through collaboration among creators. So, Hako Seikatsu-kun, Ozumikan-kun, and our staff worked together on the development. When creators collaborate, there can be conflicts or things not going well, but in this development, communication worked well, and we were able to progress without any arguments. The development period was about four months, and even for a small game that seemed difficult to complete in that time, we achieved an ideal development. Even now, this development is one of our landmarks, and I believe this is the best way to create.
Sakoda
Ah, I see. That atmosphere definitely came through. There was a sense that everyone was enjoying themselves. "Phantom AP" has this worldview and sense of volume that makes it feel just right, and while this game may end here for now, if there are other developments, like merchandise, it feels like we can enjoy the universe as a whole. Plus, hearing about the strong collaboration among creators makes me think that's really great. It feels like something to aspire to.
Kimura
It was a really good development. Originally, the team members were close, which helped a lot, but I think it progressed very well because of that. The worldview of Harumaki Gohan was wonderful, and the music was fantastic as well.
The latest work will be released when it's ready
Sakoda
Well, I want to hear about "ghostpia" and other topics, but it would take a lot of time, so reluctantly... What I'm curious about is when works like "World for Two," "Unreal Life," "From_.," "Hate no Makina," and personally, "The Fox and the Frog" will be released.
Kimura
That's right, well, to be honest, I don't really know, but it feels like the release will be when it's ready.
Sakoda
Yeah, listening to what you said earlier, it seems like that's how it will be.
Kimura
Yes. As a rough framework, for "The Fox and the Frog," I would like to aim for a release next year. Of course, we set that goal and work towards it, and if we think it can be done anytime, we might end up just continuing to work on it forever, which isn't good. However, we currently plan to release it within six months to a year. I believe the game we received this time will likely be released next year.
Sakoda
I see. But it's tough. If you don't set a deadline, things can get out of hand, but there isn't a particularly overwhelming reason to set a deadline, you know...
Kimura
That's right. In the end, we have to make an interesting game. We are no longer doing contract development, but in contract work, you have to commit to deadlines, right? When that happens, you inevitably have to cut content or discard something, so personally, I have a policy of not committing to deadlines while producing games now.
Sakoda
Well, I see. After listening to your talk earlier, I feel like I have a better understanding of the elements that create the world of "Yokaze." From the discussions with the core members, I could grasp the attitude with which it is being developed, which was very enlightening. I have one last question: you mentioned the four pillars—music, scenario, game system, and graphics. I believe that music and graphics contribute significantly to building the world, and the scenario is also important. In that context, is the game system relatively less important?
Kimura
That's right. The game system is probably the one that is the least emphasized among these elements.
Sakoda
Exactly. If you had to choose, which element do you think has the strongest emphasis?
Kimura
That's a tough question. What I can say is that the game system has indeed been considered important for a long time, especially in Japan. However, I believe it’s not the only important aspect; there are other crucial elements in games, and the games we create can evoke emotions not only with new systems but also with well-established ones. I don’t think everyone is looking for new systems, and we want to put effort into graphics, music, and scenarios as well.
Sakoda
I see. I’m glad that today we could get a little closer to the secrets of "Yokaze" and the production secrets of room6. If you have any announcements or previews to share...
Kimura
Well, speaking of upcoming news, the Steam version of the visual novel game "ghostpia" is scheduled to be released in August. Additionally, the package version of "Unreal Life" will be released on August 24. Until now, only the download version has been available, so we are planning to release a physical media package version. It is currently available for pre-order on online shopping sites like Amazon. I hope you check it out.
Sakoda
Is there something special about the package version of "Unreal Life" that makes people want to buy it?
Kimura
Yes, the package version of "Unreal Life" comes with an original comic. Additionally, the limited edition includes a disc with music tracks, featuring newly recorded songs and collaborations between virtual singers Isekai Jōcho and Harumaki Gohan, which are quite impressive to listen to and watch.
Sakoda
Speaking of Isekai Jōcho and Harumaki Gohan, that duo from the YouTube "Yokaze Night" is really great, isn’t it?
Kimura
Yes, it is. It’s really enjoyable when creators collaborate like this to create something together, and I think this initiative has been a success. Yes.