This article can be listened to as a podcast on the following media.
Guest, Personality
Guest: Michinoku Toge
Animation Creator / Game Art Designer, primarily active in animation production. Currently producing and posting a short anime titled 'Michinoku Toge.'
Personality: Yuki Sakoda
After working at a telecommunications company and a general advertising agency, he founded an anime planning and production company, producing visuals for music videos and films. He moved to Kyoto in 2021 and has also been involved in boosting the entertainment industry in Kyoto. Recently, he has been engaged in the manga and audio entertainment fields, currently planning and producing audio dramas and webtoons. Additionally, he serves as a producer and advisor for multiple entertainment companies.
Overall Table of Contents
#01
・From Kazunoko to Michinoku Toge
・The trigger for aspiring to create animation
・Realizing that the foundation for improving 3DCG quality lies in 2D animation
・The appeal of Disney Pixar storyboards
・The Japanese temperament
・Valuing the atmosphere in cuts during production
・Sources of inspiration from Brother Bear
・Wanting to create a Japanese version of Brother Bear
・Wrapping difficult themes in entertainment to make them easier to digest
・Enjoying depicting living things
・Joined a game company because I wanted to create freely and diversely
・What can be done within the company, what is advantageous to do, who is good as a freelancer, etc.
・The existence of the inner self
・A major failure in graduation production
#02
・What I learned from my seniors at the company
・Don't rush, mindfulness, don't think
・Are there tips for not thinking?
・Putting unpleasant things on the shelf, covering up unpleasant things
・Making things gray
・The inspiring MV of Airy Me
・The routine for generating creative ideas
・Researching thoroughly on the topic
・Making difficult-to-understand things easier to convey through art and creativity
#03
・Realizations from trying crowdfunding
・Initially tried to do it all by myself...
・Anime that can't be done smartly
・What is the essence of humanity and creation?
・Through the arrival of AI, I feel it has become clearer what we are seeing and seeking through our works
・The importance of context is becoming more prominent
・About the work "Michinoku Toge"
・Wanting to convey the identity and essence of Tohoku
・What I want to convey in episode 10 of "Michinoku Toge"
・The fact that constraints are determined from birth
#01 Begins
From Kazunoko to Michinoku Toge
Sakoda
Well, the timing when I got to know Michinoku Toge was when they were active under the name "Kazunoko," and now they have changed their name to "Michinoku Toge," which is the same as the title of the work they are creating.
Michinoku Toge
That's right. To explain a bit, the pen name "Kazunoko" seems to be quite commonly used. Previously, there was someone named "Kazunoko" among gamers and pro gamers, but since I was in a different field, I didn't pay much attention to it at the time. Recently, however, there are people on YouTube teaching how to use video production software with the name "Kazunoko," and it seems there are illustrators with the same name as well, so I decided to change my name. Since I was producing a work called "Michinoku Toge," I changed my name to "Michinoku Toge" to sell that work. It might be a bit confusing, but please forgive me for that.
Sakoda
No, but I really think it was a good change. In fact, both the illustrations and After Effects have elements that Michinoku possesses, and since they are in the same realm, there must have been some complexity from the perspective of the audience, customers, and fans. By the way, the work "Michinoku Toge" has been in the works for quite some time, right?
Michinoku Toge
That's right. It's been about 2 or 3 years now, hasn't it? It feels like just yesterday, but time has flown by.
Sakoda
Yes. But when you say 2 or 3 years, it really coincides with the onset of COVID, and with the ongoing situation, well, it feels like we are just about in the post-COVID timeline, so it feels like a moment to me. This timeframe of 2 or 3 years feels like an instant.
The Trigger for Aspiring to Create Animation
Sakoda
I'm curious about what kind of people got to know Michinoku Toge through this crowdfunding and what they have done. Especially creators must be extremely interested. They are shrouded in mystery, yet the quality of what they create is outstanding. I think many people are curious about where this person came from and what they are doing.
So, that's the current situation, but could we rewind a bit to the past and hear about what triggered Michinoku to step into the career of creating animation?
Michinoku Toge
Yes, that's right. Originally, how should I put it... well, during my student days, I was probably a high school student? At that time, I was studying 3DCG. It was really fresh and, well, a groundbreaking tool back then. As I used that as a starting point for my studies, I started to wonder what the key to improving the quality of 3DCG was, and I realized that the concepts of 2D animation were fundamentally important. The direction and, especially, the motion in student works of 3DCG at that time were quite lacking.
So, I thought I should properly study the know-how of animation, and as a result, I gradually became interested in the world of 2D animation. Before I knew it, I was working deeply in 2D animation rather than 3D CG.
Sakoda
I see. So, since you started with 3DCG, did you have a preference for 3DCG works among the successful works that were released at that time?
Michinoku Pass
Yes, well, at that time, Disney and Pixar were at their peak, and 3DCG was synonymous with Pixar. I didn't know much about it during the time of 'Toy Story', but my favorite was 'Monsters, Inc.' I watched 'Monsters, Inc.' and thought it was so realistic and the story was amazing, with both the story and characters being incredibly appealing. I also watched the making-of DVD. It turned out that rather than focusing on the technical aspects, they were discussing the creative parts, which were more akin to 2D animation. So, I started watching 2D animation.
Sakoda
I see. During the time of 'Monsters, Inc.', which I believe was around 2000 and 2001, it seems like that was also a time when late-night anime was booming in Japan. At that time, did you tend to watch more 3DCG films like Disney and Pixar rather than late-night anime?
Michinoku Pass
To be precise, I was in middle school or upper elementary school at that time. So, I was in a period where I didn't know much about late-night anime. Back then, it was a time when otaku culture wasn't very prominent. Otaku were seen as antisocial and creepy, so I was somewhat leaning towards that side. On the other hand, 3DCG was new, and Pixar had this image of being stylish and Hollywood-like, so I was more inclined towards that. The perspective of focusing on that eventually led me to study 2D to improve the quality of 3DCG. As I studied 2D, I later realized that Japan actually has a very impressive 2D culture.
Sakoda
I see. But even in 3DCG works, the original start was with concept art, layouts, and storyboards, which were still hand-drawn. Even now, when you look at the making-of from Disney and Pixar, the initial V-concept is still drawn as illustrations.
Michinoku Pass
Yes, that's right. Pixar's concept art and storyboards, which they seem to call storyboards, were really appealing. Even the storyboard drawings weren't just rough notes like Japanese storyboards; they had a quality that stood as illustrations. Moreover, the individuality of the staff... Oh, I'm sorry, I think you might have heard my cat jumping around just now.
Sakoda
It's totally fine, thank you for having your cat join us! (laughs)
Michinoku Pass
I have two cats, and it feels like I'm working with them. So, what was I talking about?
Sakoda
About how wonderful the storyboards are.
Michinoku Pass
Ah, yes. The individuality of the staff was also very appealing. Each staff member had a different drawing style, and I thought Pixar was really cool back then. But now, with the spread of the internet, the boundaries between industries and genres have become transparent, and while the quality has certainly improved, I feel that the uniqueness and individuality of each creator have somewhat diluted. It might be easier to work, but as a viewer, I find the older concept art more appealing.
Sakoda
That's true for companies as well, and as they grow larger, it's a natural flow to incorporate various things while looking around. In the early days, each individual could express their personality as an artist and bring that individuality to their work, which was possible because of the small team size. As the scale expands, both the company and the works move to a higher stage, and I think that sense of dilution is something that exists in every company and industry.
Michinoku Pass
Yeah, that's right. I thought maybe Pixar or Disney was different, but given their size, they have become somewhat synonymous with market-driven products. So, I definitely feel that there is a significant difference between the past and now.
Sakoda
Yes, yes. I really want to delve into the current discussions about Disney and Pixar, and the market-driven versus product-driven topics, so I hope we can talk about that again sometime. But initially, when you started your creative journey, the people, companies, or works that influenced you were mainly Disney and Pixar, particularly Pixar. During that time, there was 'Monsters, Inc.', 'Finding Nemo', and 'The Incredibles', which were all Disney works. Of course, 'Toy Story 2' was also a bit earlier.
Michinoku Pass
Yes, yes. The people I admired and were influenced by were all those who appeared in the making-of DVDs from Pixar. To be honest, I wanted to get a job at Disney-Pixar. But by the time I became a student and started job hunting, Disney-Pixar was no longer an attractive company for me.
Being Japanese in Spirit
Michinoku Pass
I wanted to work in an environment where I could create works that utilize the Japanese spirit and characteristics as a Japanese person. Also, I simply didn't have the courage to study abroad. At that time, I might have thought it wasn't a big deal, but I think I was making excuses about the language barrier and whether Japanese artists would be respected in Hollywood, so I felt it was better not to study abroad. In the end, I think working individually in Japan wasn't so bad after all.
Sakoda
I see. When I heard about something I admired in the past, what really connected with me was that what Michinoku-san is depicting in their work 'Michinoku Toge' reflects the keyword of Japanese temperament quite significantly. In reality, I always feel that Michinoku-san's art, whether it's still images or videos, conveys a strong sense of story through its layout.
The layout at first glance is really cool, and it makes me want to see that world more, suggesting that there’s a rich background to it. I think that’s where my admiration for Pixar’s storyboards from the past subtly comes through.
Michinoku Toge
Well, if you put it that way, it might be unconsciously influencing me.
Sakoda
When I look at these storyboards, each image feels like it’s frozen in time, yet I can sense a tremendous background and story, which really expands my imagination. That’s what’s so wonderful about Pixar’s storyboards.
Michinoku Toge
That’s true. Well, not just Pixar, but when I was studying 2D animation and illustration, I was really focused on creating animation during my student days, but I couldn’t convey a sense of dynamism.
It didn’t feel lively, and it lacked a sense of atmosphere. Even though animation and video have more dialogue than illustrations or comics, they still didn’t convey that sense of dynamism. As I pursued the reasons behind this, I realized that without the power of the artwork itself, even if it moves, it won’t have much dialogue. I’ve come to value the composition and the atmosphere that each shot conveys in my work.
Sakoda
Ah, I feel like I’ve uncovered a secret within myself. Yes. Earlier, you shared what inspired you to pursue creativity and your feelings before you started working. In the second half, after a song break, I’d like to ask how you began working domestically while wanting to get a job at Disney Pixar, and what kind of transitions you went through to get to where you are now. So, first, I think there’s a song that fits this flow at the end of the first half, could you introduce it?
Michinoku Toge
Yes, I’ve been talking a lot about Pixar, but there was also a Disney 2D animation that was released around the same time called 'Brother Bear.' I was very impressed by it, and I think it influenced my understanding of the importance of artistic sensibility. The soundtrack used in that film is really great. I first learned about the artist Phil Collins, who was active in the 80s, and he collaborated with Disney to create the soundtrack. So, this is the soundtrack from that film.
I Want to Create a Japanese Version of Brother Bear
Sakoda
Yes. What you just heard was "Transformation" from the original soundtrack of 'Brother Bear.' Michinoku-san, you mentioned a bit at the end of the first half, but do you have any personal connections or episodes related to this original soundtrack track?
Michinoku Toge
Yes, well, the source of 'imagination' or 'inspiration' that I mentioned before the music is present in the work 'Brother Bear,' and I was very impressed by it. To put it simply, it’s a work that incorporates the worldview of the indigenous Inuit people living in America and Canada into a Disney animation. What’s most important in this work is how it expresses the earthy ethnic identity through a spiritual and mystical worldview. While indigenous and minority cultures can be somewhat difficult to approach, this work skillfully embellishes and expresses that in a Disney-like manner. It’s also a work that became a starting point for the movement of adapting folklore into animation. There are many other excellent works, including late-night anime, but for me, this was a very important catalyst.
Sakoda
It’s clear that 'Brother Bear' is a source of creativity for Michinoku Toge-san, and I see the connection here. Yes. As you mentioned, the themes of culture and faith can sometimes be difficult and imposing. It’s about wrapping those in a layer of entertainment and presenting them in a way that’s digestible.
Michinoku Toge
I feel a great sense of emotion in that. I genuinely want to create a Japanese version of 'Brother Bear.' So, Michinoku means 'Tohoku,' and to put it simply, I wanted to express the indigenous culture of Tohoku in a 'Brother Bear' style. The Ainu people of Hokkaido are also indigenous, and I’ve thought about doing something with that many times, but since there’s already a work called 'Golden Kamuy,' I decided to focus on Michinoku instead and create 'Michinoku Toge.'
Sakoda
Yes, yes. This might turn into a bit of a discussion about Disney, but I think Disney has skillfully used animals as motifs to tell stories, serving as various metaphors, including diversity. This has been done for quite some time, and Michinoku-san also uses animal motifs in their designs. What are your thoughts on this and how do you approach such designs?
Michinoku Pass
Well, yes, that's true. Personally, there’s this design that’s just human, you know? Like the kind of faces that girls in the art club might draw in the corner of their notebooks. What can I say, I feel a sense of disgust when I see those faces. I think, since it’s a drawing, it doesn’t have to be human. So, well, I actually prefer drawing over manga, and I wanted to draw things other than humans. Animals have various forms, and it’s fun to draw them, and when it comes to inanimate objects, they’re not alive, so it’s more enjoyable to draw living things, right? So, with that mindset, I think I gradually started creating more works inspired by animals.
Sakoda
Hmm, I see. It’s true that art is free, and creativity is free, so it’s a strong motivation to not limit it to just humans.
Michinoku Pass
If everyone is drawing the same thing even though they have freedom, then why not just make a live-action movie? Well, I think that sounds a bit contrarian, though.
Sakoda
Hmm, I see. Going back a bit, you admired Disney-Pixar's 3DCG during elementary, middle, and high school, and you realized that the secret might actually lie in 2D. You’ve started studying 2D in that context, but I think you began this creative work as a job. Can you share a bit about your work experiences from that time?
Michinoku Pass
Yes. Well, I wanted to draw pictures that were more aligned with Pixar and Disney rather than the typical otaku-style art, so when I was looking for a job, I tried to choose a company that had a diverse art style rather than one that was stamped with a Japanimation style. Gradually, I was able to draw the pictures I wanted, and of course, I drew a lot of things I didn’t want to, but I feel like I was able to draw more of what I desired compared to being right in the center of the anime industry. Then, I left the game company, became independent, and became a freelancer, which allowed me to create my own work and choose my projects, so I felt like I was strengthening my movement to draw various things.
Sakoda
When you actually thought about doing something with your art, you probably hypothesized that a game company might be better since you wanted to maintain a certain level of diversity. In hindsight, do you feel that it was indeed more freeing than entering the heart of the anime industry?
Michinoku Pass
No, I think if I had been deeply immersed in the animation industry, I probably wouldn’t have been able to draw what I love. So, I think it was because I was a freelancer that I could draw what I wanted. Even in a game company, there are various constraints, but they tend to focus on what appears on the screen, so while it didn’t completely align with what I wanted to draw, it was somewhat close, which is probably why I ended up in a game company.
Sakoda
However, your intuition seems quite sharp. I think many listeners of this podcast might be those who want to set sail into the creative industry, and I believe that those who have a clear vision of what they want to do often struggle with where they can achieve that.
What you can do in a company, advantages of doing so, and what’s good for freelancers
Sakoda
If someone doesn’t have a particular vision, it’s fine to just adapt to the company they’re in, but I think those who know what they want to do often find themselves at a crossroads. Michinoku, you ended up working at a company for a while and then became independent, and now you’re doing work in areas you love, right?
Michinoku Pass
Well, it feels like my time as a company employee was both long and short. I just became a freelancer, and this year marks about my fifth year, and I was at the company for about five years as well. So, it feels like a half-and-half situation. When I was in the game industry, I thought I would continue being a game creator forever, but seeing my friends getting closer to what they love made me feel like I didn’t want to stay in that situation, so I became a freelancer.
Sakoda
Michinoku Pass
Yes. Well, I’m going to go back a bit, but if you enter society with nothing you want to do, or if you’re completely blank, it’s clearly more meaningful to move within an organization. In a company, you can learn the know-how, and your desires align with the company’s direction, so there’s no friction. Because there’s no friction, you can do higher-level work, and your life can be enriched, and I think that’s a form of happiness.
I wanted to be that way during my time as a company employee. But somehow, my inner self was resisting that, and it felt difficult to live. Well, I think it’s good to follow the customs of the land, but I felt a bit different, so I naturally chose to be a freelancer.
The reason I aspired to work in video was that during my student days, I wanted to study animation production. In that context, the individuality of personal creators in art university animation was very prominent, diverse, and incredibly appealing. So, I wanted to become someone who creates that kind of work. However, during my graduation project, I had a chance to do that, but I ended up failing miserably.
Sakoda
Oh, I see.
Michinoku Pass
Yes. I had no scheduling know-how, and it ended up being half-baked. Well, it wasn’t just that; I got a bit lost, and at that time, it felt like otaku culture was at its peak, so I was making something like a “Cool Japan” moe anime. So, I think I really failed there. I ended up creating something I didn’t want to, and it wasn’t even completed, which felt terrible. I carried that feeling into my working life. So, I think in a way, my current self exists to honor that feeling.
Sakoda
Ah, I see. It’s interesting, but if you had created something that truly resembled the animation you admired during your graduation project and had some level of satisfaction with it, perhaps your inner self wouldn’t have burned out during your working years, and you might have blended into the organization and utilized its power to reach a different, higher level. That’s something I think about.
Michinoku Pass
That's right. From a third-party perspective, there are times when I don't really understand what I'm doing, but I still feel that I'm different from the norm. Life has had its subtle twists and turns, but I think that's just how it is.
The Existence of the Inner Self
The existence of the inner self.
Sakoda
Yeah, well, life really doesn't have any right answers, and the same goes for a creative career. How should I put it? No matter what status you're in, there's always something that feels lacking, or something that hasn't been properly honored, right? But, well, Michi no Kōge has been able to listen to that inner voice for five years, while I think most people end up suppressing it. That voice can be quite strong, after all.
Michi no Kōge
That's true. Ideally, I think it's normal to come to terms with those feelings and adapt. But, I feel like it's okay to have someone who is doing something completely nonsensical or utterly incomprehensible.
Sakoda
That's great. I think a lot of people find that incredibly encouraging. Listening to your story, I don't get the feeling that you're just going back and forth with all those twists and turns; it feels like you're doing it with a clear purpose. However, even if Michi no Kōge feels that way internally, I believe that those who are just starting out or currently creating will have their own struggles. Still, being able to hear the opinions of someone like Michi no Kōge, who is actively taking action while grappling with those issues, is really encouraging, I thought.
Michi no Kōge
Ah, that's a great honor. Yes, I think so. I hope that more people will use that feeling as fuel to create something exclusive or outlaws, you know?