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Guest, Personality
Guest, Personality
Guest: Michinoku Toge
Animation Creator / Game Art Designer mainly engaged in animation production. Currently, I am producing and posting a short anime called “Michinoku Toge.”
Personality: Yuuki Sakoda
After working for a telecommunications company and a comprehensive advertising agency, he started an anime planning and production company and produces music videos and films. In 2021, he moved to Kyoto and started working on promoting the entertainment industry in Kyoto. He is currently also working in the entertainment field of manga and audio. He is planning and producing audio dramas and webtoons. In addition, he serves as a producer and advisor for multiple entertainment companies.
Overall Table of Contents
#01
・From Kazunoko-san to Michinoku Toge-san
・The trigger for aspiring to create animation
・Realizing that the foundation for improving 3DCG quality lies in 2D animation
・The appeal of Disney-Pixar storyboards
・What it means to have a Japanese temperament
・Valuing the atmosphere in cuts during production
・Sources of inspiration from Brother Bear
・Wanting to create a Japanese version of Brother Bear
・Wrapping difficult themes in entertainment to make them easier to digest
・Finding joy in depicting living things
・Wanting to create free and diverse things, which led to joining a game company
・What can be done within the company, what is advantageous to do, those suited for freelancing, etc.
・The existence of the inner self
・A major failure in graduation production
#02
・Things learned from seniors at the company
・Don’t rush, mindfulness, don’t think
・Are there tips for not thinking?
・Putting unpleasant things on the shelf, covering up unpleasant things
・Making things gray
・The inspiring MV of Airy Me
・The routine for generating creative ideas
・Researching thoroughly on the topic
・Making difficult concepts easier to convey through art and creativity
#03
・Realizations from trying crowdfunding
・Initially trying to do it all by myself...
・Anime that can’t be done smartly
・What is the essence of humanity and creation?
・Through the arrival of AI, I feel it has become clearer what we are seeing and seeking through our works
・The importance of context is becoming more pronounced
・About the work “Michinoku Toge”
・Wanting to convey the identity and essence of Tohoku
・What I want to convey in episode 10 of “Michinoku Toge”
・The fact that constraints are predetermined from birth
#02 Begins
Don’t rush, be mindful, don’t think
Don’t rush, be mindful, don’t think.
Sakoda
Yes. Um, there was always something that Michinoku-san wanted to do for your graduation project, but you never had the opportunity to do it. It bothered him for a long time, even during his five years as a company employee. So you decided to become independent because you had to do it no matter what. Well, looking back, it was a kind of experience of failure, but in reality, whether when working for a company in society or doing something on a project basis, there are many successes and failures, and you have to overcome them when facing something. What kind of philosophy or coping method does Michinoku-san have in such situations?
Michinoku Toge
Well, let me see. It’s not just limited to the creative industry, but when I was struggling with my job, there was something a senior at the company told me that I think is important to share. First, it’s about always staying calm. Don’t panic, that’s what it means. When you panic, your head feels like it’s working subjectively, but it’s not actually turning. There was a story on TV about someone who was deceived because they had no money and lost all of their money. They were then deceived by the bad person and ended up in a negative spiral, and in the end, the person who was deceived couldn’t make rational judgments. When I saw the actual situation on TV, the judgments they made were really unbelievable.
So, I think that people who are in a tight spot can’t make really good decisions, so it’s important to not panic and stay calm. And when I was struggling, I saw something called mindfulness, which is actually about meditation. Meditation is an exercise to empty your mind and focus on your goals to improve your thinking. It’s like taking a deep breath. When you take a deep breath and calm down, the anxiety is reduced a little and you can get closer to making rational judgments, so I think that’s important to do.
The second thing is “not thinking.” This is the opposite of what I just said, but it’s like, I don’t know, when you’re insulted or your boss says something harsh that negates your personality, it’s a common story to go home and worry alone in your room. But that’s just spinning around the same thoughts and it’s not productive at all. I’m the type of person who tends to drag things from the past and I used to think that if I thought about it, I would see a solution and it would get better, but there was a time when I thought it wasn’t really helping me in a positive way. On the contrary, when I tried to think positively and not worry about it, it was surprisingly similar to what I just said. I was able to be calm and my mind was stable, and I was getting closer to making the right judgments.
So, it’s about not caring about it by “not thinking.” Stop spinning around with the same negative thoughts, distance yourself from them, and ultimately, I think the key to success is “not thinking” and always staying calm. Well, I’m currently feeling nervous, so I feel like I’m lacking in calmness. I think I need to take a deep breath.
迫田
Ah, let’s take a deep breath then, shall we? “Don’t panic” and “don’t think” are the two pieces of advice from my seniors that I keep in mind when facing difficulties. However, I’d like to delve a bit deeper into this “not thinking” part. Isn’t it very difficult to “not think” at all?
Ah, let’s take a deep breath and then laugh a little. “Don’t panic” and “Don’t overthink” are the two senior colleagues’ advice that we should keep in mind when facing difficulties. However, I would like to ask more about this “Don’t overthink” part. Even so, it’s very difficult to “not overthink”, isn’t it?
Michinoku Pass
Well, yeah. It makes you think, doesn’t it?
Sakurada
Right. It’s tough because once you start thinking about it, your brain automatically goes that way, you know? There are various default mode networks and whatnot, but ultimately it’s what your brain naturally thinks about. That’s why I think everyone struggles with it, because they can’t stop it. In that sense, I feel like Mr. Michinoku has somehow been able to “not think” to a certain extent through some methodology, and I’m curious about what kind of techniques he uses.
Michinoku Pass
Yeah, I think even I haven’t quite figured it out yet, but when I can’t help but think, I consciously try to think positively. Also, I often use a secret Twitter account as a substitute for a diary to vent things like “something bad happened, ugh.” This way, I am putting my thoughts into words. So even if I try not to think negatively, by being conscious of it or putting it into words, I unintentionally bring negative feelings closer to my subconscious. Therefore, it’s important to try not to do that and focus on ignoring negative thoughts by putting them aside or covering them up, so to speak.
For example, in a peaceful family, there may have been a scary past that is taboo or unspoken. There is also the concept of “kotodama” where words can sometimes become energy. This can be explained scientifically or neurologically. Therefore, not being conscious of negative thoughts and not saying them out loud is important. When you feel down, you tend to think about the reasons why you are feeling down. As a result, you end up recalling negative experiences. So, it’s important to focus on the good things, even if they are small things like eating delicious food or going to a beautiful place.
Also, from a counseling perspective, people always think about the past and the future. For example, “this happened in the past, so I’m no good.” Conversely, we are often plagued by anxiety about the unknown future. But if we can concentrate on the present moment and not think about the past or the future, we can avoid overthinking. It’s important to immerse ourselves in happy moments and feel grateful for what we have. By doing this, we gradually nourish our hearts and minds and can distance ourselves from negative thoughts. So, focusing on being happy and soaking up happy moments is key to overcoming negative thoughts, in my experience.
Ambiguity
Ambiguity
Sakuta
The word "mindfulness" was mentioned at the beginning, and I thought it was a story that was deeply rooted in that concept. In the end, the story that Mr. Michinoku talked about in this area is quite difficult to understand and accept, isn't it?
Michinoku Pass
Oh, I just came up with a way of expressing it. When it comes to unpleasant or bad things, trying to come to terms with them or trying to find closure can make you feel negative. That's why people often say that the gray area is the best, rather than trying to see things in black and white. This may be a bit of a digression, but in conflicts in the world, it's often better to see things in shades of gray to maintain peace. So, I think that seeing things in shades of gray is what leads to mental stability. Instead of making assumptions, it's good to find the best part in a middle ground, rather than in black and white.
Sakuta
That's a really good point. After all, it's important to always have some gray areas in international order and rules. The UN and others do the same thing, avoiding a situation where one place has complete decision-making power over something.
Michinoku Pass
Well, I see. It's kind of confusing, but somehow it works.
Sakuta
Right. I think it's a natural and internationally applicable approach to leave things ambiguous because if that something is already determined to be either 0 or 100, then rational decision-making will be made, which I think leads to the conclusion that someone or something will be dropped.
So, when I asked Michinoku-san beforehand about how to deal with differences of opinion with team members, he talked about this gray area logic. So, I thought I'd like to talk about that as well.
Michinoku Pass
Well, yes. Regarding differences of opinion with team members, it's exactly as you said; leaving things ambiguous is important. It may sound bad, but I actually think it's the best approach. It's somewhat related to the discussion of black and white and prejudice, but I believe that prejudice is the same as clarifying things in black and white.
Summarizing everything as the same can cause friction, so what's important within the team is to coexist with various differences. Coexisting with differences and allowing things to flow is essential, so by thinking of ways to take the best parts from the gray area, I believe that the stagnation caused by differences of opinion among team members can start to move. To put it another way, there's something called Hegel's dialectic, which is a bit complicated, but it essentially involves A and B arguing, and then a mediator suggesting a middle ground to guide them. So, I think leaving things in the gray area is quite important for various matters.
Summing up everything as the same thing can cause friction, so what’s important in a team is coexistence, even if there are different things. It’s important to flow and coexist even with different things. By thinking about finding a compromise that combines the best of both worlds, I think that the things that were stopped by differences of opinion with team members will start moving again. Well, to put it another way, there’s something called Hegelian dialectics that’s a bit complicated, where there are a and b, and they’re arguing about something, but then a mediator comes in and suggests a middle ground, and words that lead in that direction, so leaving things gray like that is probably important for various things.
Sakoda
No, I feel like I’m in a state where I’ve been in the industry for 30 years or something like that, you know, haha.
Michinoku Pass
No, no, I’m just babbling. I think my father talks a lot about work to our family, but I just hear those conversations and other stuff like the issues with that company on Twitter, and I guess that’s what led me to think this way.
Sakoda
Well, let me see. I’d like to go back to the song arrangement to bridge the latter half here. As far as the connection point goes, after experiencing various failures, Michinoku-san has come to the conclusion that gray is the best. At the time of his graduation work, he talked about an episode where he failed and said, “I messed up here!” On the other hand, or rather, I don’t know if it’s the right way to put it, but it’s a form of introducing songs that Michinoku-san himself really liked and thought were good.
Michinoku Pass
Um, there’s a work that left a great impression on me during my student days, and it’s by an artist named Haruko Kuno, who graduated from Tama Art University. She created an animation for her graduation project. The title of the animation and the name of the song used in it are the same, and the name is “Airy me”. The artist of the song used in the animation is Cuushe, but this work was so excellent and beautiful that I felt like I wanted to create something like this. So, this song from an animation work has become like a curse that continues to make me want to create something like this.
Impressed by Airy Me's MV
Impressed by Airy Me’s MV
Sakoda
I was talking a little bit earlier, but could you please tell me again the story behind this song?
Michinoku Pass
I first saw this work when I was in my third year of university, at a screening of selected works by students studying animation in Tokyo. It was an event called ICAF, and that was the first time I saw it. The technical level was incredibly impressive, but more than that, the beauty of the visuals was astounding. Specifically, the style was such that it was not digitally processed at all, with only minimal finishing, and all the drawings were done on yellow paper with colored pencils, using various colors and just lines. The content is set in a hospital, and it seems to depict the cute interactions between a nurse and a patient, but ultimately, the patient turns into a grotesque monster. It’s beautiful and cute, but the contrast with the grotesque, or the dark side, is depicted, and I was technically impressed, and regarding the theme and style of the work, I really felt a strong desire to create something like this. So, I guess out of admiration, or rather, because I loved that work so much, I watched that animation multiple times on YouTube for several years after becoming a working adult.
I first saw this work when I was a third-year university student, at a screening of selected works by students studying animation in Tokyo. It was an event called ICAF, and it was my first time seeing it. The technical excellence was amazing, but more than that, the beauty of the art was incredible. Specifically, the art style was all hand-drawn with colored pencils on yellow paper, without any digital processing, with just the bare minimum finish. The content was set in a hospital, and at first glance it seemed to depict a cute exchange between a nurse and a patient, but in the end, the patient turned into a grotesque monster. It was beautiful and cute, but at the same time, it depicted the dark side and contrasted with the grotesque elements. I was very impressed both technically and thematically, and I was filled with admiration and a desire to create this kind of work myself. I loved the work so much that even after I became a working adult, I watched that animation on YouTube many times for several years, almost as an obsession.
Sakoda
That thing that was just talked about earlier, not about nutritional supplements for the heart, but when your inner voice comes out, it’s both about controlling it and promoting it. Watching this work might have been a way to keep providing that nutritional supplement, with the thought of making something like this someday and giving oneself encouragement.
Michinoku Pass
Well, I guess I was getting energy from that nature.
Sakoda
When I listen to that, I think that the creators are really happy to hear such voices from others, so I think that maybe Michinoku-san is also creating the work to convey the same feeling to other people who will make things in the future.
Michinoku Pass
Well, if that could be done, it would be great, wouldn’t it?
Sakoda
That’s true, isn’t it? Well, I think that the attitude towards facing failures and difficulties, like the one from earlier, is really projected in Michinoku-san’s work. I think it’s unconsciously seeping through. I feel like mindfulness thinking is really present in it.
For example, in the work “Michinoku Pass,” there’s a mountain priest named Oni, right? There’s a scene where he says “Let’s have a conversation with the mountain,” right? That’s definitely mindfulness and meditation, and I think it’s that kind of thinking. Well, I think that focusing on the present moment means feeling and having a conversation with everything in front of you with your whole body. So, I think that folkloristics and indigenous cultures aim for those kinds of things, so it’s natural that those themes are chosen. I now think that Michinoku-san’s attitude towards facing difficulties is also reflected in their work, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
Michinoku Pass
Well, there are aspects of adding past difficulties as episodes to Michinoku Pass as a way of honoring those memories, and also parts that, as Sakoda-san mentioned, are unconsciously included. Both seem to be present.
What is a routine for coming up with creative ideas?
What is a routine for coming up with creative ideas?
Sakuta
I’ve heard about the essence of “not rushing” and “not thinking” when faced with difficulties and failures, but I’d like to know what kind of idea generation methods, routines, and thought processes Mr. Michinoku has while doing creative work. What do you think? Where do ideas come from, and what inspires them?
I asked about the idea generation process and routine that Mr. Michinoku has while doing creative work, after hearing about the idea of “not rushing” and “not thinking” when faced with difficulties and failures as an essence. However, what is the process of generating ideas and what kind of things lead to inspiration?
Michi no Kōge
During my time as a company employee, I worked in game design, so I was doing the job of bringing ideas to life. Therefore, there are two things that I learned during that time: the methods I was taught and, in addition, my own life experiences. As for the methods I learned during my time as a company employee, when given a topic, I would research it thoroughly, looking for the most optimal answer for that topic. I might not find a 100% perfect answer, but I would find a close one. After finding an answer, I would then add my own thoughts on how to improve it and bring it to life. That’s the process of dropping an idea and developing it.
One method of dropping an idea is to research it thoroughly, but it’s not the only way. Normally, I would see and hear various things in my daily life, as well as my own hobbies and preferences. I also pay attention to things and keep them in stock as part of my own repertoire. While it’s important to pay attention to things that interest you and expand your antennae, relying solely on your own interests will only lead to biased ideas for a given topic. Therefore, when making something, I research the topic thoroughly. I’ve been writing down my own ideas for a long time, but surprisingly, they often don’t work when it comes to actual production. They tend to be shallow.
While they can contribute to the flow of ideas, the information gathered from thoroughly researching the topic is more useful. So, if you try to come up with ideas without relying on your own repertoire, you’ll get stuck in a quagmire and never be able to put your ideas into shape. Therefore, I always keep my antennae up and try to learn as much as possible. Even if you rush to learn more, it’s not always helpful. It’s important to look at things you don’t like, endure the work, and appreciate the good parts of it, rather than wasting time by not noticing the good parts. That’s why I think it’s important to pick up on your own hobbies and preferences while researching if necessary.
Sakuta
Regarding that, Michinoku-san has a stance of researching extensively during the process of coming up with ideas in response to a given topic. The information and facts gathered during the research serve as the essence, and by combining them with their own opinions, they elevate them into ideas.
Michinoku Pass
By choosing a theme and focusing on it during exercise, I think that the approach becomes closer, or rather more flexible ideas can be generated. When I think without a theme, I can reach parts that I couldn't have reached myself. Therefore, deciding on a theme, or rather a concept, is important.
Yeah, that's really true. Although using the term "concept" instead of "theme" feels more liberating, having some constraints or a framework is necessary to prevent ideas from dispersing and to strengthen them. By gathering a lot of facts and information to reinforce this framework, which becomes sharper precisely because there is a set theme, it becomes easier to incorporate new information that previously didn't fit, and by incorporating our own opinions, the accumulated information, facts, and opinions combine to generate the best ideas for that theme.
Well, this way of thinking is similar to that of a creative advertising agency's creator, I thought while listening. In the end, Michinoku-san probably has a strong desire to make difficult-to-understand things understandable through the power of art and creativity, and that's probably why he follows such a thought process when facing creative work. Making difficult-to-understand things understandable is the power of art, creativity, and design, so Michinoku-san has a great sense for it and a strong desire to do so, which is why works like "Michinoku Pass" are produced.