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Guest and Personality
Guest: Masashi Kimura from room6
Born in 1972, 50 years old. After graduating from a computer vocational school, he aimed for the game industry but couldn't get hired, becoming a business engineer instead. Inspired by the release of the iPhone in 2007, he wanted to develop for the iPhone and became independent in 2010. Realizing that game development could also be done on the iPhone, he started developing mobile games around 2013.
From around 2015, he exhibited at numerous indie game events both domestically and internationally, and began developing console games for the Nintendo Switch around 2017. Through connections made with developers at events, he started an indie game publishing business in 2019. In 2020, he began operating the indie game label "Yokaze," which collects games that immerse players in different worlds.
Personality: Yuki Sakoda
After working at a telecommunications company and a general advertising agency, he founded an anime planning and production company, producing visuals for music videos and films. He moved to Kyoto in 2021 and began working to promote the entertainment industry in Kyoto. Recently, he has also been involved in the manga and audio entertainment fields, currently planning and producing audio dramas and webtoons. Additionally, he serves as a producer and advisor for several entertainment companies.
Overall Table of Contents
#01
・Aiming for the game industry during my student days...
・Daily life as a business engineer
・The emergence of the iPhone and rekindled passion for games
・Daisuke Shiiba, who creates music for world for two
・The importance of music in indie games
・Music, scenario, graphics, and game systems are essential
#02
・Accelerating motivation for game development after various life events leading to independence
・Participating in indie game events
・In a charming office in Demachiyanagi, Kyoto
・About games and monetization
・Nourishment received from anime during tough times
・The final push to make games interesting
・The importance of playtesters and the difficulty of judgment
#03
・While video media formats are linear, games...
・Games with interactive elements are the epitome of complexity
・What room6 and the Yokaze label want to provide based on that understanding
・Meeting hako seikatsu at a pixel art event
・Starting the publisher business in 2019
・Creating game works with the care of a parent for their child
・The development of Phantom AP progressed wonderfully through co-creation with creators
・The latest work is released when it is completed
#01 Begins
Aiming for the game industry during my student days...
Sakoda
Today, we have a self-introduction from Kimura-san that I received in advance, and it has a very interesting background, so I think it would be great to pick it apart one by one and ask Kimura-san about how things were at that time. Is that alright?
Kimura
Yes, please go ahead.
Guest: Masashi Kimura from room6
Born in 1972, 50 years old. After graduating from a computer vocational school, he aimed for the game industry but couldn't get hired, becoming a business engineer instead. Inspired by the release of the iPhone in 2007, he wanted to develop for the iPhone and became independent in 2010. Realizing that game development could also be done on the iPhone, he started developing mobile games around 2013.
From around 2015, he exhibited at numerous indie game events both domestically and internationally, and began developing console games for the Nintendo Switch around 2017. Through connections made with developers at events, he started an indie game publishing business in 2019. In 2020, he began operating the indie game label "Yokaze," which collects games that immerse players in different worlds.
Sakoda
It says here that you graduated from a computer vocational school and aimed for the game industry at that time but couldn't get hired.
Kimura
That's right. I've loved games since I was a child, mainly playing computer games. I really played games all the time. In the past, I even created small games using the BASIC programming language.
I always wanted to learn programming and get into a game company, but at that time, it was a hiring freeze, and there weren't as many job openings in the game industry as there are now, so it was really hard to get in. I applied to a company that starts with C, which was making fighting games in Osaka, and I got pretty far in the process, but unfortunately, I couldn't get hired and ended up starting a regular engineering job.
Daily Life as a Business Engineer
Sakoda
Your self-introduction mentioned that you were a business engineer, but what exactly does that entail?
Kimura
Well, this was really contract work, where I created various systems, such as general systems within companies and banking systems, as well as some unusual ones like web systems and television station scheduling systems, and also banking and network security systems. Yeah, I worked on a lot of different systems.
Sakoda
That was probably in the 1990s, right?
Kimura
That's right. Well, I faced the so-called Y2K problem, and I spent New Year's Eve 1999 staying overnight. I was keeping an eye on things in front of the computer.
Sakoda
It's quite a topic to actually experience the Y2K problem in a professional setting, isn't it? By the way, did you study game development at a vocational school?
Kimura
At that time, there were no vocational schools for game programming, so I was learning regular computer programming. However, since I had already been studying on my own, there wasn't much for me to learn at the vocational school. It wasn't very interesting. Nowadays, there are many vocational schools for games and a lot to learn, but 30 years ago, there weren't many such schools.
Sakoda
It seems like the way to build a career wasn't very clear back then. It wasn't an era where you could just look things up online. Well, you had to at least try going to a vocational school or a university to figure things out.
Kimura
That's right. I was only focused on programming, so I went to vocational school for that purpose.
The Arrival of the iPhone and a Renewed Passion for Games
Sakoda
I see. You were working as a business engineer in the 1990s, faced the Y2K problem, and then jumped to 2007 with the arrival of the iPhone. The impact this had on the media was enormous, and I often bring it up in comparisons. Were you inspired by this as well?
Kimura
Yes, I was really surprised... Especially when Steve Jobs did the first demo of the iPhone. At that time, I was working in UI/UX design, so I was a bit interested, but when the iPhone came out, I was truly shocked. I felt this was an amazing device that would change the world. It made me want to do something like that myself, but the company I was at was very conservative, and when I consulted the president, he flatly refused. So I thought, well, I'll quit and do it myself.
Sakoda
I completely understand that feeling. Around the time the iPhone 3G came out, there was probably a period of 2-3 years where people said something like this could never become popular. During the peak of i-mode and feature phones, there was a time when people kept saying that such an inconvenient thing (smartphones) could never become mainstream. So, I think the decision to go independent and develop was a good one. From there, it seems like the young Kimura, after graduating from vocational school, aimed for the game industry but spent 10-15 years without being involved in games. However, the passion for games was always burning, and when the iPhone came out, did that lead to serious game development?
Kimura
No, initially, it wasn't connected. At first, I was just doing business-related work, getting jobs from previous connections. But as I researched, I learned that there was a framework for making games on the iPhone. In the past, making games meant writing a lot of C code, which was a very high hurdle. However, I discovered that with the iPhone framework, you could make a game by yourself, so I thought I had to do this. That's when I started a business and began making games a little while later. That was the official start, but I had never made a game before, so I was completely clueless. The first game I made was really just something that resembled a game.
Sakoda
At that time, you were using the iPhone framework almost by yourself?
Kimura
Yes, I was part of a team of 2-3 people, but I was involved in server-side work and planning, and I also took on a role of coordinating everything. Since I was an engineer involved in planning and design, I was also involved in the game's design. The first game I created was in the location-based genre. I was trying to create a very grand location-based game.
Sakoda
Did you utilize the iPhone's GPS effectively for that?
Kimura
Yes. Using the features, the first game I was trying to create was a bit too grand, and of course, it ended up not being completed at all.
Sakoda
Wow, I really want to hear about your struggles in creating that location-based game in 2011, but I don't want to digress too much, so let's talk about it another time. I got my first iPhone around 2008, and I was amazed that I could use Google Maps and Google Earth on my phone. But in terms of the impact of the iPhone, I remember an app called "Sekai Camera." It was an app that allowed you to point your iPhone at various places and place tags, and it made me feel the future. So, I completely understand the desire to do something with a location-based game.
Kimura
Exactly. I was inspired to create something by looking at Sekai Camera and similar apps. It was an incredible time, and if I start talking about it, it will take a while, haha.
Sakoda
I see. So, while thinking about those things, you became independent in 2010 and started game development with a team of three. Did that lead to where you are now?
Kimura
Well, for me, it was really just the beginning, and I thought, "Oh, I can make games." After that, there were changes in staff, and around 2013, the passion to "make games" was reignited, and I started making games seriously within the company. Until then, it felt like I was making games as a hobby alongside my work, but from around 2013, I decided to see it through to release.
Sakoda
Ah, I see. So, despite various twists and turns, the desire to pursue creativity in games was always there, and perhaps the iPhone was what pushed you forward.
Kimura
That might be true. It was definitely the iPhone. At that time, I think there was a significant increase in individual game developers creating games for iPhone and Android. I feel like I was somewhat riding that wave.
Sakoda
Indeed, the iPhone changed the lives of many creators. It's an incredible device. There aren't many devices that can change the lives of creators, and to do so across both software and hardware is truly remarkable.
Music for World for Two by Daisuke Shiiba
Sakoda
Well then, I think we should take a break and play a song here. I believe this song is related to the game that Mr. Kimura is currently working on.
Kimura
Yes, that's right. For the first song, I would like to present a piece from a game title that we are publishing, composed by Daisuke Shiiba, called 'Dream Song'. Thank you.
Sakoda
What you just heard was 'Dream Song' by Daisuke Shiiba. Do you have any episodes or stories related to this 'Dream Song' or Mr. Shiiba?
Kimura
Well, yes. Daisuke Shiiba originally worked at Nintendo, where he was involved in various game music compositions. After leaving, he has been active as a game music composer, and we have had the pleasure of working with him for a long time. Among his works, I think 'world for two' is particularly wonderful. Daisuke Shiiba is a composer who excels at creating music with live instruments, especially strings, and when I first heard the performance of the violin and string quartet, I was completely captivated, which is why I have continued to request music from him.
Sakoda
Wow. I’d like to dig a little deeper into this. First of all, I think it's quite rare for indie game music to use string quartets or live instruments. Typically, the sound is more like something created on a computer, which is a common characteristic of indie games, right?
Kimura
Yes, the chiptune sound. I really like it. Many games do adopt chiptune music. There’s hardly any live music in indie games, I think. It’s costly and can be quite a hassle.
The Importance of Music in Indie Games
Kimura
Since live music is difficult to re-record, I tend to focus on the music itself. Rather than fitting the music to the game, I record the music first and then adjust the game to match the music. There are quite a few instances where music takes the lead in the process.
Sakoda
The way of creating music to fit the game is quite rare, even in anime. There’s something called pre-scoring where voice actors record their lines first, but even that is extremely rare. In games, having the music come first and then building the game world around it is relatively uncommon, isn’t it?
Kimura
Yes, that’s true. However, there may be cases where both processes run in parallel. Of course, we do request compositions, but the completed pieces are often one-take recordings, which I want to cherish. Even if the music doesn’t fit the game, we try to adjust the game to match it. But the power of live performance is truly amazing, so I would like to record with live instruments whenever possible. This is something I really want to value.
Sakoda
That’s absolutely true. When recording live, you need to prepare the studio, the orchestra, and the total skill set that includes communication. There are very few artists who can implement that, especially in the indie game industry, right?
Kimura
Yes, that’s right. It might just be Daisuke Shiiba. But really, we do place a lot of importance on music.
Sakoda
Having played the games from room6, particularly those under the 'Yokaze' brand, I feel like when playing those titles, it’s like going to listen to the music. The music plays a huge role in creating the atmosphere. So hearing Mr. Kimura’s thoughts for the first time, it was great to realize just how significant the weight of the music is.
Kimura
Even in games I played a long time ago, I often remember the music even if I forget the rules of the game. I wonder why music stays with us for so long. I have that experience, and that’s why I believe music is something we cannot skimp on; it’s a very important element that we must cherish.
Sakoda
Music is like Pavlov's dog; when you hear it, it instantly brings back the scenery and emotions of that moment.
Kimura
Exactly. So, of course, the content of the game, graphics, and scenario are important, but music is also crucial. Well, these are the three pillars.
Sakoda
By the way, when you say three pillars, how would you articulate that?
Music, Scenario, Graphics, and Game System are Important
Kimura
Ah, is it not three pillars, but four? Music, graphics, scenario, and game system, I suppose. Among those, I think music is extremely important, at least for me. That's why there are many other game titles that pay special attention to music.
Sakoda
I see. In the latter half of the episode, the conversation has shifted to music from Kimura-san's career, and I would like to hear more about it. There are many indie games and big consumer game titles with impressive music, as we discussed earlier. In the case of indie games, I think having fewer sounds contributes to their distinctiveness.
I also remember the music from titles like 'The Legend of Zelda', 'Donkey Kong', 'Secret of Mana', and 'Chrono Trigger'. Recently, I watched an interview with David Wise, where he talked about how he created the music for Donkey Kong. He mentioned that creating a good beat is essential. If you have a good beat, the sounds will naturally follow. Since the beat is directly connected to the world view, I think it's very important. Could you share what kind of commitment you and room6 have towards music, Kimura-san?
Kimura
Well, I'm not a composer myself, so I basically leave it to them, but the world view is indeed important. Our game places a great emphasis on the world view, and we want players to immerse themselves in that world. Therefore, we are always discussing with the composers and other staff about how to convey that world view through music.