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Overall Table of Contents

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#01

・What is non-narrative expression in animation?
・His work was screened in the non-narrative section at a film festival
・Interpretation of works that do not have a "story" but do not place "story" as the pillar of the work
・Continuing to create what he loves without worrying about genres
・Falling hurts, but soft things feel good
・From Jurassic Park and Terminator to the Lumière brothers
・Movies are not just about stories; they also provide moments of experience
・Loves unforgettable experiences scattered throughout films
・A monster movie play directed to mimic a chemical plant in a vinyl pool on a summer day
・Memories of watching Return of the Jedi in theaters
・Growing up with parents who love movies
・Waiting in line to see The Phantom Menace in high school
・Longing for the analog theater space
・The shock of seeing T-1000
・Wanting to see the unusual and the strange
・From an interview with ETERNITY
・Creating experimental and strange things within a short duration
・A ride-type creation to make something that doesn't let you sleep for 20 minutes in a non-narrative way
・Realizing you were in the theater when the movie ends
・A night of biking wildly after watching E.T.

#02

・Watching subjective images on a large flat screen becomes VR
・The pleasure of visuals in "Spider-Verse"
・The value of non-verbal communication
・The ambiguity when communicating with words
・Words from a woman who watched "WONDER" in Germany
・Non-verbal communication may have the power to make viewers think spontaneously
・Not good at surveys
・Talking about "Fraggle Rock"
・About "Mizue's Journey (tentative title)"
・What it means to do "Journey to the West" now
・How humans live and how they perceive the world

#03

・About "License of Love"
・Introducing many characters
・The theme of expanding life and death
・From a science book by Gakken I read as a child
・About the song by Twoth
・Also created a song for Into Animation 8
・About the program of Into Animation 8
・We are entering a more interesting era for animation
・Animation is starting to cross over and is chaotic but stimulating

#03 Begins

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Introducing Many Characters

Sakoda

First, starting with the discussion that 'ETERNITY' is VR-like, we talked about the VR challenge, and now we are deepening the conversation about the feature-length challenge regarding 'Mizue's Journey.' So, I would like to continue asking about 'Mizue's Journey.' In terms of expression, it was mentioned that the original story that can leverage the strengths of the expressions Miku is currently using is 'Journey to the West.' This is true in terms of the story, but I also feel that the metamorphic expression regarding the underlying Buddhist motifs, such as the concept of impermanence, represents the idea that "things are always changing."

To recognize oneself, one must consider oneself in relation to everything else, and I think this is very intuitively and visually incorporated into this visual expression. I feel that this is very compatible in that sense, and I think people from India might say, "Ah, this is it!" Currently, the top figure in Indian Buddhism is Japanese, and since I have recently become interested in this area, I tend to interpret it from that perspective.

Regarding the increase in characters, I would like to ask about the characters. I believe they are composed of text in the plot, but will you also be doing the character design, Miku?

Mizue Miku

Yes, I am currently creating a pilot version of the visuals, and the characters appearing in it are designed by me. However, I am not sure how they will ultimately change.

Sakoda

I see. I really like the characters you draw, Miku, and I would love to see them. For example, the characters in CHAI's music video "Aisouze!" and the characters modeled after the CHAI members, as well as the cute dinosaur-like characters, are all great.

Also, I really like kiki vivi lily, and I think the characters in the music video by Tomggg and kiki vivi lily are cute too. I wonder if such characters will appear and develop the story, and I am excited about it.

Mizue Mirai

The piece by kiki vivi lily and Tomggg features an incredibly dynamic animation within the eyes. It’s as if there’s an abstract animation canvas inside the eyes. Essentially, it was created as a lyric video, so it loops continuously. Since it loops a short animation, I wanted to create a part with a lot of density in one spot, so I thought about doing that within the eyes. The characters that appeared in that music video are somewhat similar to characters from "Journey to the West," which I’m currently drawing. I want to showcase many characters, which connects to "Fraggle Rock," and also "Star Wars," where there are characters that only appear for a moment in a scene. There’s definitely a strong influence from those kinds of things. Additionally, I really love "The NeverEnding Story."

Sakoda

Ah, "The NeverEnding Story," right? That’s true. I definitely felt that when you mentioned it.

Mizue Mirai

"The NeverEnding Story" features a variety of characters that are completely different from those in "Star Wars," which I really love. So, there’s definitely an influence from that. In "Chibi Maruko-chan," there aren’t any mob characters; everyone has a lot of personality and background as classmates. In "Doraemon," aside from Nobita, Gian, Suneo, and Shizuka-chan, everyone else becomes a mob character. I really like the idea that many characters can all be protagonists in their own right, and that’s what I’ve been thinking about lately.

Sakoda As Mizue-san mentioned, it’s subtle, but the number of characters, their outfits, and the accumulation of the world’s background create the overall atmosphere. That’s why I really want to increase that pressure. Without it, the world’s atmosphere doesn’t deepen.

Mizue Mirai

Well, you know, as life progresses, you end up interacting with various people, and the intensity of those interactions varies. When you meet someone at a film festival, you might talk and see each other for a week, but then you part ways with a "See you later," and there’s a possibility you might never meet again. It makes me think about how many people you meet and part ways with, and how there are moments in life where you never cross paths again. It’s something that happens every day, and it makes me feel like life and death are always present in that sense.

This work is quite focused on the themes of life and death. Especially when it comes to imagining death alone, it can be incredibly frightening. But at the same time, when I think about the happy moments in my life, conversations with family, or when I consider the future, there are moments where life seems to expand as I imagine various things.

So, the fear of death amplifies, and at the same time, there are moments of life’s expansion. It’s a complex feeling within me. I think I used to live more simply, but now the concepts of living and dying feel incredibly complex, both expanding in their own ways. That’s the kind of feeling I have, and it’s a theme I’m exploring.

Sakoda

After hearing your story, my understanding of "Mizue's Journey to the West" has deepened significantly. There are elements that seem natural or perhaps intentional, but within what Mizue-san outputs to the world, I feel a certain gravitational pull towards motifs like the Thousand-Armed Kannon, Yakushi Nyorai, and Amida Buddha, as well as deities like Shiva. When considering themes like "life and death," it seems to lead in that direction.

Mizue Mirai

Yes, in my case, I was more into reading Gakken's science magazines as a child. I used to read Gakken's science magazine every month. They had things like the world inside a microscope, the universe, kits for testing acid rain, and deep-sea creatures, which I found incredibly exciting.

So, my interest in life and death comes more from a scientific perspective. I find death scary, but I also wonder why I’m alive now and why my life continues during this period. Essentially, when I think about nothingness, I realize that "being" is actually a rare state. The universe exploded, and from the dust of that explosion, the solar system and Earth came to be. When I think about the universe expanding, I wonder if there’s a vast emptiness beyond it. In that sense, the state of "something existing" feels incredibly mysterious. I have a tendency to expand my imagination in that way.

Sakoda

Perhaps I still lack the tools to delve into Mizue-san's world, and I feel somewhat inadequate, but I’m glad to have asked various questions. Now, let’s take a break with a song, and in the second half, I’d like to discuss the upcoming INTO ANIMATION film festival, as well as this feature film.

Before that, let’s listen to a song. Earlier, we talked about encounters and farewells, the concepts of nothingness and existence, and life and death. Mizue-san, you’ve shared many experiences with various members, haven’t you? Is there a song related to those people?

Mizue Mirai

The artist who created the music for my animation "MODERN No 2" is a musician named Twoth. He also composed the music for the opening video of the upcoming screening at INTO ANIMATION 8. Please enjoy his song, "Labor Anthem."

MODERN No.2

About Twoth's Music

Hakoda

Yes. What you just listened to was "Labor Anthem" by Twoth. It's a perfect fit for discussing INTO ANIMATION, as Twoth is also involved in creating music for INTO ANIMATION. I wonder if there are various episodes as comrades in arms.

Miku Mizue

That's right. Twoth, as he mentions himself, is actually Shunichi Suda, and he also works under his real name, so I think it's good to mention Shunichi Suda as well. Since calling him Twoth can be a bit awkward, I’d like to refer to him as Suda from now on. Suda has said that when he creates his music, he approaches it from an animation perspective. He perceives his music as animation. Besides the song "Labor Anthem," he has created many other tracks, some of which are very experimental, and there are songs featuring vocalist Bonjour Suzuki, among others. Overall, there’s a playful and mischievous spirit in his music, and when you listen to it, you can feel a thrilling sense of sound. I find that somewhat similar to the animations I create, where the shapes and colors move to depict cuteness. In Suda's case, each sound feels like a character, which I think is a significant characteristic of his work.

Hakoda

While listening to Suda's story, I did a bit of research, and it turns out that he has collaborated with the Kyoto City Zoo. I live very close to the Kyoto City Zoo, and I often take walks there, about a five-minute walk. I thought, "Wow, the chimpanzees there inspired that song." It's interesting to talk about the Kyoto City Zoo, especially since they put a lot of effort into their primate exhibits. The music has a unique interpretation that can be quite human-like, which is fascinating. And Suda is responsible for the opening song for the upcoming INTO ANIMATION event.

Miku Mizue

Yes, he has created the opening animation song. Since it’s also a promotional video, we haven’t announced it online yet, but soon you’ll be able to hear the music as part of the announcement video.

Hakoda

INTO ANIMATION will actually take place from August 4 to August 7, 2023, so it’s about a month away. This will be held at the National Art Center, Tokyo. What kind of event will it be?

About the INTO ANIMATION 8 Program

Into Animation 8

Miku Mizue

INTO ANIMATION is organized by the Japan Animation Association, which I currently serve as president. It includes various members such as animation creators, producers, researchers, and others involved in animation education. The first president was Osamu Tezuka.

The current organization started in 1978, and INTO ANIMATION is held every few years. It’s a screening event where members showcase their own works. Most of the screenings feature short films, including original works, music videos, and animations for children's programs, among others.

Hakoda

Is this event open to anyone who wants to attend?

Miku Mizue

Yes, admission is free. There are about 150 works to see if you attend all four days. It’s quite a substantial volume. The animation screenings will run throughout the day.

There are five programs centered around new works, categorized under headings like Fantasy, Adventure, Technique, Human Drama, and Family, showcasing members' works. Additionally, there are special programs, such as a feature on short films created by Tak Fujikura, the honorary president of the Animation Association, and a talk program discussing the achievements of Yasuo Otsuka, as well as a program focusing on 90s animation.

There’s also a program called "Meditation Animation," which presents experimental animation as a meditative experience. Furthermore, there’s a program on independent animation from Korea, organized by KIAFA, the Korean Animation Association, and various other features, including a stop-motion animation showcase.

In addition to screenings, there’s a segment called Animation Study, which is a project by researcher members. It includes presentations about the Nippon Connection, a Japanese film festival held annually in Germany. There’s also a collaboration program where various creators work together to produce a single film, which is then screened and discussed, along with dialogues between creators like Ryoji Yamada and Hiroyuki Morita, among many others.

Hakoda

There’s a lot going on. It seems like there’s a roundtable discussion on 90s animation, and also a discussion predicting the 2020s anime scene, so there’s a mix of various eras, including features on Germany and Korea. I’m curious about the "Toranoana Submission Screening" as well.

Miku Mizue

The submission screening allows young students or those just starting in animation to showcase their work, with comments provided by members of the Animation Association. For instance, Sunao Katabuchi, the director of "In This Corner of the World," is also a member of the Animation Association and will be providing comments.

Animation is Starting to Cross Boundaries, Chaotic but Stimulating

Mizue Mirai

While thinking about this program, what struck me is that the animation works created by the members of the Japan Animation Association are quite different from the animations produced by commercial studios. In the context of Japanese animation, there is a strong image associated with commercial studio productions, but if we look back at history, there has always been a significant amount of individual animation created since the early days of television. This history has been ongoing.

In organizing this program, I feel like there is a tremendous expansion in various directions, and I believe that the animations created by the members of the Japan Animation Association can really showcase the diversity of animation expression in today's era.

Sakoda

Indeed, the distribution of members includes those who have experienced various eras of animation, as well as newcomers. As you mentioned, recently, the output using the expression of animation has expanded under commercial and market principles, establishing itself as an industry. From a commercial perspective, the movement from late-night anime is often seen as the face of animation, but while that may be true from a commercial standpoint, there has always been a wide variety of works using the expression of animation. Being able to see all of that at once allows us to explore the various possibilities that animation holds.

I think this ties back to the earlier discussion about the limitations of language. When we talk about animation in a single word, it might be misleading to categorize it by age, but simply put, the animation that someone in their 90s thinks of is completely different from what someone in the 2020s thinks of, even if they are discussing the same concept of animation. This is something that really stands out. It might be a bit off-topic, but this often happens when we receive work requests from clients.

Mizue Mirai

Exactly. There are times when clients or agencies say "anime-style," and you wonder, "What do they mean by that?"

Sakoda

That happens, right? It often starts with a phase of clarification. But that just shows how much the term "anime" has gained common recognition and is a word that everyone knows.

Mizue Mirai

That's true. Recently, when talking to students, I've encountered people who only watch Cartoon Network. They have no interest in Japanese anime and only watch Cartoon Network, which they really love. It's fascinating how interests are becoming more and more segmented, and the number of common shows that people share is decreasing.

Sakoda

Yes, that's right. Back in the days when everyone gathered around the TV, there was likely a shared foundational experience with anime. In discussing INTO ANIMATION, I've heard about your past, Mizue Mirai, and how you received a film education from your parents, which connects to your current work. While we may not know what the future holds, it's exciting to hear that you are challenging yourself with feature-length animation. Personally, I would love to delve deeper into the music videos you are creating, so I hope to discuss that with you again sometime.

Mizue Mirai

Absolutely, please do.

Sakoda

Finally, Mizue, if there's anything you'd like to share or discuss regarding INTO ANIMATION or anything else, please feel free to do so.

Mizue Mirai

Well, the topic that just came up really highlights how everyone is watching different kinds of animation, with so many varied preferences. It's hard to predict how this will evolve in the future. However, I feel that in the current animation production scene, the barriers are gradually disappearing. It's not just a division between commercial studios and independent creators; now, independent creators are entering commercial studios as directors.

Young creators who present their work on social media are increasingly making music videos, and there are many visual works that, while they may look like commercial animation, contain unique expressions that only individuals can create. Movements like "#IndieAnime" are emerging, and stop-motion animation has a strong affinity with social media. There are instances where moving figures create visual surprises that go viral. I believe we are entering a very interesting era for animation. The interactions that previously didn't happen due to genre differences are starting to emerge.

While I don't know how this will develop, I think we are in a very stimulating time. That said, with the emergence of AI, it's hard to predict what will happen next; it feels like a chaotic era. So, I want to enjoy this chaos while creating. I believe that those who are currently making animation or video should embrace the changes that are coming.