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Overall Table of Contents

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Entering the Internet from Dreamcast

Sakoda

Ah, but I have a question I want to ask. Is that okay?

Shiohigari

Yes, go ahead.

Taro-chin

It's fine, go ahead.

Sakoda

When I was in the second year of middle school, talking about text sites, it was probably around 1998 or 1999.

Taro-chin

That sounds about right. Yes.

Sakoda

Windows 95 came out, and commercially, PC operating systems started to emerge. But the internet was still really slow.

Taro-chin

We were using dial-up, right?

Sakoda

That's right. I see, it's that time of year again. That's why I thought it was quite early.

Taro-chin

Ah, but that's true. At first, I was using it in the computer room at my middle school.

Sakoda

Having that environment in middle school was quite early for that time, wasn't it?

Taro-chin

Is that so? But I was really interested in the internet itself from the beginning. The very first internet device I had at home was the DREAMCAST.

Shiohigari

Ah, the Dreamcast.

Taro-chin

When I bought the Dreamcast, it wasn't so much about wanting to play Dreamcast games, but rather I wanted a machine that could connect to the internet. Computers were still quite expensive, so I thought I could buy a Dreamcast with my New Year's money. I learned about the internet on the DREAMCAST, but using it at home was really costly, like thousands of yen for an hour. At school, there was an unlimited connection, so I would skip classes and go to the computer room to search for things like Elephant Kashimashi on the internet and see all sorts of information, which I found amazing.

Speaking of which, there was this really cheap-looking toy-like robot called "The Predecessor," which was supposed to be a super advanced robot from China. There was a legendary text site called "Samurai Spirit" that humorously played around with it, and it spread quite a bit as a meme on the internet back then. I remember seeing it and thinking, "Wow, there's such a way to express things."

It's a unique atmosphere that expresses something only found on the internet, different from manga or interesting books, and I thought it was really fascinating. I wanted to do it, so I just started imitating it back when I was in middle school, around the third year. Yes. Game streaming is the same; creating videos or doing something super creative requires skills and studying, but if it's just making a homepage with a homepage builder and typing in text, I can do that myself. Plus, just playing games and talking is something I can easily imitate, so I thought, "I can do this."

It wasn't so much about whether it would be interesting or not; I just wanted to imitate it, to put it simply. It's like wanting to play futsal even if you can't become a professional athlete. Or wanting to play guitar even if you don't aim to be a professional musician. That's the vibe I had while playing around on the internet.

Shiohigari

I see. I think I feel quite similarly about that.

Taro-chin

Right.

Shiohigari

That's right. I was also looking at text sites, and I wanted to try making games. Yes, I really admired doing something interesting on the internet.

Taro-chin

Various things before encountering illustrations.

Shiohigari

Exactly. Back in those days, we were really doing things with text. I haven't done game streaming, but I did play games on streams, like on USTREAM, so I encountered that era.

Taro-chin

That's right. At that time, I want to say this because I want to pass it down, but what was shocking about Shiohigari's USTREAM stream was when he imitated Monster Farm (laughs).

Shiohigari

That story is still being passed down.

Taro-chin

That's already a legend. I really want Shiohigari's activities to be etched into the Shiohigari Wikipedia. I had a webcam on, showing that room, wondering what I had, something like a spear.

Shiohigari

Yeah, that's right. To explain, back then, I was streaming games all the time. Just a little here and there. Not many people were watching, maybe a few dozen at most. I would occasionally tweet about it, saying things like, "Today I'm playing Super Mario," and stuff like that.

So, in that way, I declared that I would be streaming Monster Farm today, which is a super popular game where you raise and battle monsters. Then, when it actually started, I showed the webcam, wearing a Godzilla mask and holding something like a spear, probably a souvenir spear and shield my dad bought in Africa, like a warrior's gear. I would become a monster and train, raise, and battle in Monster Farm. After a few years, they would die, right?

Taro-chin

Yeah, that's right.

Shiohigari

I would do everything from cradle to grave. I would play the soundtrack with the BGM, starting from the moment I meet the assistant, where the monster is born, where it battles, where it eats, and where it celebrates its birthday. I would do all of that, even the part where it dies, like an entire etude.

Taro-chin

Make it so that "Shiohigari seems happy."

Shiohigari

The status of that monster would always be displayed as text, like "Shiohigari is doing well," and I would keep that displayed, creating a collage that says Shiohigari is doing well.

Taro-chin

Shiohigari would do everything in the daily life of the monster on the command selection screen. It was interesting that it wasn't just wandering from right to left, but it was doing everything from start to finish. I was really particular about it.

Shiohigari

That was amazing, right? People still talk about it, saying that Shiohigari's Monster Farm stream was seriously entertaining, but at that time, the competing program was Shin Evangelion. It was airing on Friday Roadshow.

Taro-chin

What are you fighting against?

Shiohigari

Yeah, that's right. So on Twitter, everyone was just talking about the Friday Roadshow and Evangelion, and it got drowned out, haha. I saw a tweet that said, "If the competing program hadn't been Evangelion, Shiohigari would have been way more popular at that time."

Taro-chin

That was the turning point.

Shiohigari

That might have been the turning point. There was a possibility I could have become a popular streamer by now.

Taro-chin

No, it could really happen, you know.

Shiohigari

Right. I was definitely sharp back then. The urge to become someone at that time was incredible.

Taro-chin

Yeah, there was still a part of the internet that was seen positively, like the potential of it.

Shiohigari

Right. So, the internet was around in the 2000s? Just barely. No, maybe not. Around 2010 or so.

Tarochin

That sounds about right.

Shiohigari

I think it was around the time of the earthquake. So, while the internet is now open to everyone, it was still a somewhat closed space back then.

Tarochin

That's true.

Expressing Clusters and Personalities Just by Being on the Internet

Shiohigari

It was an era where there was still quite an underground vibe.

Tarochin

Yeah, yeah. We were really doing interesting things. It was like the "beginning and end of content on the internet," where interesting people did interesting things, and uninteresting people did uninteresting things and faded away.

Taro-chin

There were quite a few interesting people, and the viewers seemed to have a good sense of awareness. It felt like a village, but a village with high literacy. There was something comfortable about that.

Shiohigari

That's right. It's interesting. So right now, Vtubers are really gaining momentum, aren't they? They tend to get quite popular as a group.

Taro-chin

That's true.

Shiohigari

And it's the same with streamers. Recently, popular streamers have been playing Grand Theft Auto, which is called Stogra. There are various groups like Nijisanji and Hololive, and people enjoy the dynamics within those groups, with tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands participating. It used to be more minimal, like with game commentators or USTREAM streamers.

Taro-chin

No, things have really changed in that regard.

Shiohigari

It has changed, hasn't it?

Taro-chin

At first, collaborations were viewed in a negative context.

Shiohigari

Oh, right.

Taro-chin

I don't want to hear the voice of someone I don't know.

Shiohigari

That's right.

Taro-chin

It was something that would cause a controversy, so when collaborating.

Shiohigari

That's true.

Taro-chin

There might not have even been the word "collaboration," but basically, there was one streamer, and it was normal to see them as someone close to you, like "Don't bring some random friend in front of me" and that kind of thing would cause a controversy.

Shiohigari

That definitely existed.

Taro-chin

That was the normal perspective here.

Shiohigari

Yeah, right? Exactly. That's why I also feel that way. In that small village, I definitely faced some criticism. I'm the type of person who likes to meet others. That's how I met Taro-chin and all. So, it feels like we should grab a drink sometime.

Taro-chin

I get it, I get it.

Shiohigari

Yeah. And I brought that kind of atmosphere to the internet. So, there were quite a few people who really disliked that, right?

Taro-chin

Yeah, there are still people like that now, but back then, it was clearly categorized as bad.

Shiohigari

That's true.

Taro-chin

I'm more of the type who thinks, why not just drink normally? I felt like some people were acting all high and mighty like celebrities, so I was the opposite, saying, if there's a meetup, please invite me. I don't do that much anymore, but I used to tweet things like, "I'm drinking here, anyone free?"

Shiohigari

Right, and then drinking with the viewers and all.

Taro-chin

Yeah, right. There are people I've become close with because of things like that, and we still maintain a normal friendship. In fact, there are even some close friends I attend weddings with.

Shiohigari

That's true.

Taro-chin

It was the same when I was drinking with Gari-kun every week.

Shiohigari

Isn't that how it is in the end? I feel like when I first met Taro-chin, it was something like that too. Like, anyone could come along.

Taro-chin

He brought someone along like a friend.

Shiohigari

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Taro-chin

He said he was a friend who does USTREAM and started talking.

Shiohigari

Right. And somehow, we just clicked unusually well.

Taro-chin

Yeah, something really went well.

Shiohigari

Back then, I wanted friends who were doing something like me, so I joined a light music club at university, like a light music circle, and that was of course a lot of fun. But I felt like I was fitting into a pretty rigid mold, and while they were good people, I had a strong desire to be friends with people who were creating something. So I became friends with people who were streaming on USTREAM. That's when I got to know Shinoda from Hitorie.

At that point, I thought, "This is the person." If I'm going to follow someone, it has to be Masataro Oi, who really shaped the core of my sense of humor.

Taro-chin

Back then, you know. "Funny Research Club" or something.

Shiohigari

We called it the "Funny Research Club," but we were just having drinking parties. We did that about three times a week, right?

Taro-chin

We did, we did. I just remembered something.

Shiohigari

I always had this feeling of wanting to create interesting content.

Taro-chin

But back then, I wasn't really anyone, you know. Just like anyone else.

Shiohigari

Yeah, that's right.

Taro-chin

There might have been people who felt that way. Some people have become someone from there.

Shiohigari

Yeah. We are also able to make a living, after all.

Taro-chin

Just to be clear.

Sakoda

When was the time when Shiohigari and Taro-chin were drinking a lot and having fun?

Shiohigari

Probably the time I met them the most was after I got a job, so I graduated in 2011, and it was around 2013... I think it was between 2011 and 2015.

Taro-chin

I think it was around that time. I wasn't working the most during that period, though.

Shiohigari

Yeah. At that time, I was borrowing money almost every week to drink. I was stable, you know.

Taro-chin

Since I was a working adult and stable, of course I would borrow money.

Shiohigari

It was a natural flow.

Taro-chin

Of course, it was a natural thing to do.

Shiohigari

It was just a completely natural flow to lend money.

Taro-chin

We were doing it, we were doing it. It was fun, you know.

Sakoda

In short, I feel like the clubroom vibe has kind of faded away since the 2010s.

Shiohigari

Ah, that might be true.

Sakoda

Yeah, it might be a bit old-fashioned, but I think Tunnels would be easy to understand. They have that ultimate clubroom vibe, a bit of bad humor, and it feels like a fun, smirking atmosphere. I think those guys peaked from the 1990s to the 2000s, and while that vibe continued into the 2000s, it really disappeared after the 2010s.

The reason for that disappearance is because the internet opened up, but it’s definitely due to the advent of smartphones. That’s when everything started to change drastically. Now, it’s become a battlefield, and the internet is truly a battleground where anyone can be criticized under the banner of righteousness.

Taro-chin

Right? It’s really a tough internet to live in.

Sakoda

That’s true.

Shiohigari

It has changed a lot, hasn’t it?

Taro-chin

I’ve been saying this for a while, but I keep saying, “The internet is only for introverts.” That was definitely the case until a while ago.

Shiohigari

That's right.

Taro-chin

Back when I used to drink with Garikun and others, just being on the internet or watching Nico Nico Douga was enough to clearly express a certain kind of cluster. We could sense that we had similar sensibilities, but now, just saying you're watching YouTube or using Twitter doesn't reveal much about a person's character at all. So, how should I put it, it has become something that no longer expresses that kind of cluster. It's just the attribute of "the internet."

So, it has become really difficult to match with others because you can't understand what kind of perspective they have on the internet without digging deeper.

Shiohigari

That might be true.

Taro-chin

No, it was definitely something for introverts.

Shiohigari

It used to be.

Taro-chin

Yeah. So that clubroom vibe is also like that, we were the introverts who were a bit late to the extrovert vibe.

Shiohigari

Exactly, it was like we were imitating the extroverts, right?

Taro-chin

It seems like everyone who quit during high school or college was in the second or third string back then, and now that everyone is gone, they’re finally doing it. I was quite aware of that myself.

Shiohigari

Well, yeah. I was meeting a lot of people back then. Among them, of course, there are many who have completely distanced themselves from the internet, got regular jobs, and have kids, but really, there are also quite a few who are now spreading their wings, right?

Taro-chin

That's right.

Sakoda

But, having witnessed the changes in the internet back then, now that Taro-chin has summarized it, I can somewhat read the atmosphere within that transition. I can behave with the understanding that just being in my own cluster on the internet doesn’t define my cluster, so it seems like I’ve gained the skill to ride the current wave based on experience.

Taro-chin

What do you think? I feel like it’s not that great, honestly. I really don’t like the internet from the past 5 or 10 years, and it doesn’t feel like it’s mine at all.

That’s partly due to generational changes as we age. I think this is really what they call being an old-timer; everyone ends up feeling that way. I can’t help but think that things were better back in the day, and even though I’ve been trying to resist that thought, I still find myself thinking that way sometimes. It feels like there’s nothing I can do about it. But then, if I ask whether I can do something that’s not on the internet now, I realize I can’t, so I’m just doing what I’m doing.

Shiohigari

Ah, I see.

Taro-chin

I think this might be true for others who are working in different fields as well. After doing sales for 20 years, it feels like there's no turning back, and I wonder how many people just continue into their 40s and 50s like that.

Shiohigari

That's totally true.

We can only deliver as "Taro-chin" in our 40s and 50s

Taro-chin

I've already come this far with "Taro-chin," and I feel like I have to continue with it into my 40s and 50s, so I'm facing the internet with that determination.

Shiohigari

I'm the same way, seriously.

Taro-chin

We have to keep going with Shiohigari in our 40s and 50s.

Shiohigari

No, there's no going back. I've already been a cheap artist for 15 years or so.

Taro-chin

Right? So, if I were to be asked again, "Are you going to do some sales or something?" it’s a matter of whether I can actually do it.

Shiohigari

No, it’s impossible. So, if I can’t make a living anymore, it’s just not feasible to work for a company or anything else without this extension, as Shiohigari.

Tarochin

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There might be other paths, but in the end, we can only deliver our lives as Shiohigari and Tarochin.

Shiohigari

That’s really true.

Tarochin

That’s what it is, you know? So, I’m doing it with this kind of acceptance or resignation, and it’s not like I feel super positive about it, like, "I’ve really gotten better at this." I’m pretty much taking it in a flat way.

Shiohigari

That might be true. I guess I have no choice but to die here.

Tarochin

Yeah, I’m fully prepared.

Shiohigari

It’s nostalgic.

Tarochin

We have no choice but to complete it.

Shiohigari

Well, shall we move on to the second song?

Taro-chin

Let's get to the song title. So please listen to this. It's "Barabara" by Gen Hoshino.

Shiohigari

This is also a great song, or rather, it's a song that symbolizes Taro-chin.

Taro-chin

Yeah, this is right in the middle of the time when I was drinking with Garikun. I was in my late 20s, and it was around the end of SAKEROCK for Gen Hoshino.

Shiohigari

It was like, "Are they going to disband or not?"

Taro-chin

When it comes to Gen Hoshino, it was like, "Oh, the guy from SAKEROCK sings too," and during a time when we were drinking with Garikun, someone brought up, "Is there any good song lately?" And that's when I got hooked on this song.

Shiohigari

There was a time when I was just talking about Gen Hoshino all the time.

Taro-chin

I'm only talking about Gen now. There was a time when I thought I was Gen (laughs).

Shiohigari

Yeah, really. It was around my late 20s, maybe just before 30. Right, Taro-chin?

Taro-chin

There was a time when I really overlapped my worldview and philosophy with Hoshino Gen. So now he's a pop star, but I really loved that feeling of Hoshino Gen when he wasn't that famous yet, including all the confusion. The great thing about the song "Barabara" is that it wants to say the world can become one, but instead it says the world isn't one, it's scattered, but let's go somewhere just as we are, and that's okay. It's a kind of twisted affirmation.

It's made in a way that twists it, saying the world isn't one, damn it. Hoshino Gen said it was a song he made out of frustration after being dumped, and I really resonate with that twisted side of him. But it's not a bad thing. Even though we're scattered, because we're scattered, we can overlap, and in that way, everyone can seem to be one. He says, "No, we're really scattered, but that feeling of being one exists as it is, so that's fine. Let's just keep doing it as we are." I really like that way of thinking, and I still believe that.

Encountering the absurdities of the world is common in life, but during those times, I always think, "But the world is scattered." So I realize that I just have to keep going as I am, and I learned from Hoshino Gen how to search for the optimal solution within that.

Shiohigari

Ah, that's right. It's like Taro-chin's way of life itself, so indirectly, I've been influenced by it too.

Taro-chin

We talked about that a lot back then.

Shiohigari

That's right. We talked about these things endlessly.

Taro-chin

It's like a thin philosophy.

Shiohigari

It's thin, right? It's been this kind of light flavor philosophy all along.

Taro-chin

I've been sending it with a salty flavor all along. Philosophy, snacking on salt while drinking sake.

Shiohigari

That's right.

Taro-chin

We were going with salt, not sauce.

Shiohigari

We were going with salt. Everyone's stomachs were getting wrecked, so the stance was that a strong philosophy is not good. A lighter philosophy, you know.

Taro-chin

Yeah, that's the kind of feeling it gives. So it really symbolizes a way of life.

Shiohigari

Yeah, that's right. It's like a song that embodies Taro-chin's way of life. I really remember going to the ARABAKI Rock Festival.

Taro-chin

Yeah, I went.

Shiohigari

Everyone was there. It was around the time when Gen Hoshino was just starting to get popular.

Taro-chin

It was around the time his second album was released.

Shiohigari

From now on, you won't be able to see him this easily at festivals. It was still a smaller stage in a tent, not the biggest one, and when I saw him with Taro-chin, I thought, "Wow, that was great," but when I looked at Taro-chin's face, he was already crying uncontrollably.

Taro-chin

At that time, there were quite a few Gen Hoshino fans around, about five of us, and everyone was crying their eyes out.

Shiohigari

I remember being surprised that everyone was crying so much (laughs).

Taro-chin

I really love the songs from the second album "Episode" too.

Shiohigari

That's right. It was before "Koi Dance," right?

Taro-chin

It was before that, when he was still singing birthday songs on Banana Man's radio, and we thought it was funny, back then.

Shiohigari

Well, from that time, I really started to drink a lot more.

Taro-chin

Yeah, right. So I was drinking every day, listening to Gen Hoshino every day, and practicing guitar. Even though I wasn't working.

Shiohigari

You were playing guitar, right?

Taro-chin

There was a time when I played guitar every day. Just walking every day, playing guitar every day, and drinking shochu.

Shiohigari

No, that's right. The amount of alcohol I drank was proportional to Taro-chin's hand tremors, which accelerated. It was like a progressive knife (laughs).

Taro-chin

During this time, I clearly decided, "If this is the kind of life I have, then I will drink every day."

Shiohigari

Ah, I see.

Taro-chin

Until then, I liked drinking sake and high-proof alcohol, but I thought, since I would be drinking every day, I might as well dilute shochu with water.

Shiohigari

I see.

Taro-chin

And that's when my shochu and water life began, about 10 years ago.

Shiohigari

So that’s how it started, I see. That makes sense. I was really worried back then, you know? Everyone was. Taro-chin was clearly an alcoholic, no doubt about it.

Taro-chin

Well, that makes sense. I had a clear decision at that time.

Shiohigari

Yeah, I mean, I decided to live with alcohol.

Taro-chin

Right, seriously, I thought I would die from that, and even when I was being transported for acute pancreatitis, I was told in the ambulance, "You really need to stop drinking," and I thought, "There's no way I'm stopping." I had a strong awareness that I had decided to die from that.

Shiohigari

I see. But now, I'm a tea lover.

Taro-chin

Not that I became a tea lover or anything.

Shiohigari

But you know, I felt really reassured the other day when we all went for afternoon tea.

Taro-chin

We did go.

Shiohigari

Before, we used to just hang out at "Kin no Kura," munching on cheap fries while discussing shallow philosophy. Recently, we've been going to stylish curry places and sipping tea at cafes.

The other day, we went to a nice hotel for afternoon tea, sinking into a plush sofa, just the two of us. When I looked over, Taro-chin's hand was completely steady. That really reassured me. After all, a lot of my internet mentors are passing away.

Taro-chin

Well, you know, Gari-kun mentioned it on his radio show, but people around Gari-kun in this scene tend to be on the deeper side of the internet. Many belong to the darker corners of the web.

Shiohigari

That's true. Exactly.

Taro-chin

They're really typing with their souls.

Shiohigari

Yeah, they're typing with their souls, so they're getting worn down. That tip of the soul is definitely getting chipped away.

Taro-chin

Our generation... well, that might be a bit of a broad statement, but there were definitely a lot of people deeply involved in the internet back in those days.

Shiohigari

Yeah, that era was something else. I was particularly fascinated by those kinds of people; I really liked them.

Taro-chin

Same here.

Shiohigari

They were all a bit lacking in some way, and I liked taking care of those kinds of people, and I might still be like that.

Taro-chin

Like lending them money.

Shiohigari

Yeah, exactly, lending money and all that. It was like there was a hole that fit my shape perfectly. I could fill it, and it was something I was good at. So, in a way, it was a sort of co-dependency, where we both felt comfortable with each other.

So I had this kind of Batman and Robin relationship (laughs). I was often playing the sidekick, but those kinds of people, like Taro-chin back then, would drink excessively and smoke a lot. They were living in the moment, betting their future on it. I was quite the opposite; I thought about the future at the expense of the present, so those who lived in the moment were getting tapped on the shoulder by the Grim Reaper.

Taro-chin

I was pretty much held down by that.

Shiohigari

Yeah, you really got out of there. I didn't think there was any insurance you could get from that place.

Tarochin

No, seriously. I thought that way of living was right, and honestly, I still think it is. I believe I haven't done anything wrong. How should I put it? I have no regrets at all, I guess. You know, there’s this idea that you have to live your life like you're sharpening a pencil, and there are definitely people who live like that.

So, when I mentioned the idea of being incomplete, I think being drawn to those who are lacking is probably because I have those parts in myself too. I think that's why I'm drawn to things like Gen Hoshino's "Barabara".

Shiohigari

That's right.

Tarochin

Exactly.

#03 to be continued